tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post199700229115409796..comments2023-07-14T02:53:40.719-07:00Comments on retired doc's thoughts: Retainer Medicine,Social Justice and the importance of framing the debatejames gaultehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05537303135780186926noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-17657504564409132082008-01-08T19:22:00.000-08:002008-01-08T19:22:00.000-08:00"We" is simply our elected officials carrying out ..."We" is simply our elected officials carrying out "justice."<BR/><BR/>"our expectations" are simply statistically proportionate outcomes based on societal makeup. You know, what you would expect if things like gender, racial, and class discrimination weren't in the way <BR/><BR/>See, that was easy. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-27948737795349251242008-01-08T12:26:00.000-08:002008-01-08T12:26:00.000-08:00to anon.8:16 AMI believe the key words there are "...to anon.8:16 AM<BR/>I believe the key words there are "we need" and "come in line with our expectations".Who gets to be the "we" and whose expectations are elevated to the level of being the ultimate arbiter? It is the age old tension between freedom and power.james gaultehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537303135780186926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-34339963468484959232008-01-08T08:16:00.000-08:002008-01-08T08:16:00.000-08:00Dr. Rich,The opportunity vs. outcomes idea of just...Dr. Rich,<BR/><BR/>The opportunity vs. outcomes idea of justice is an important one. <BR/><BR/>I think a sophisticated response from an advocate of the "equal outcomes" agenda would say the following:<BR/><BR/>"yes, I agree the ultimate goal is equal opportunity. However, if we had TRUE equality of opportunity like we all want, we would see more equality in our outcomes across racial,socioeconomic, and gender lines. Since we persistently see inequality of outcomes along those lines, we, by definition, must not have TRUE equality of opportunity. Therefore we need to address these inequalities with redistribution until the outcomes come in line with our expectations." <BR/><BR/>Debating this point is where the money is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-34648118608214402552008-01-08T07:09:00.000-08:002008-01-08T07:09:00.000-08:00My take is that the notion of justice as a ethical...My take is that the notion of justice as a ethical precept has been taught to the current generation of medical students and house officers to the extent that the debate is framed or stacked in the favor of the notion of social justice. Some docs such as Panda Bear seem to see through it anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-29390550180644243962008-01-07T23:52:00.000-08:002008-01-07T23:52:00.000-08:00Your eloquent arguments against the "social justic...Your eloquent arguments against the "social justice" are beautifully reminiscent of Ayn Rand's "The Virtues of Selfishness."<BR/><BR/>Strong work Sir. <BR/><BR/>Thank you.JoshMDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09111066668663650784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-85424968366137303072008-01-07T07:19:00.000-08:002008-01-07T07:19:00.000-08:00Cynically, I believe many who take social justice ...Cynically, I believe many who take social justice as a given do not really grasp what it means and how it works.I also believe that many of the advocates for social justice in various contexts know exactly what it entails.james gaultehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537303135780186926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11034229.post-11532607192218731392008-01-07T06:41:00.000-08:002008-01-07T06:41:00.000-08:00Dr. Gaulte,Thank you for this concise survey of th...Dr. Gaulte,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for this concise survey of the issue. To me, the question of social justice boils down to this: Does social justice imply attempting to achieve equal opportunity, or equal outcomes?<BR/><BR/>America's foundational document, the Declaration of Independence, explicitly calls for equal opportunity under the law. The founders would have been aghast at the notion that the goal of society should be equal outcomes.<BR/><BR/>This, simply, is because achieving equal outcomes necessarily requires a supremely powerful central authority that can forcibly and arbitrarily redistribute wealth (and any other commodity required for homogenation of outcomes). This is explicitly what the founders were fighting to avoid. <BR/><BR/>Requiring "social justice" to be framed as the need for equal outcomes has always been, and will always be, a demand for such an all-powerful central authority. That the desirability of this variety of social justice is taken today as a "given" by a great part of the mainstream is, to say the least, disturbing. Do these people understand what they're asking for?<BR/><BR/>DrRichAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com